I'll be referring to the last letter in this column here.
I'm gonna pick both sides of this argument apart, because it's fun to do. If you prefer to skip to the end to hear my take on this whole punk vs. metal thing, go for it.
I am using this without permission, but I am using it in an editorial context (and in hopes of getting Queen Bee and Candy for Bad Children some more visits). If they really have such a problem with a little extra publicity, then they can click the linky below....Frankly, I don't think Queen Bee will give a rat's ass- that's why she's cool.
First, to Stu's letter:
Dear Queen Bee,
I have a question. Why are the vast majority of punk rockers so misguided? I am an avid Metalhead and I realize punk and metal are sisters in music but, damn. If I have to hear one more punk bitch about political nonsense he/she doesn't even have a clue about, I'm going to bust some skulls.
Hm. I think this is valid- I do hate it when a song is supposed to be about protesting something but it's not all that clear what it is. It's like the Billy Squier song "The Stroke." People think it's about masturbation. It's about politics, damn it. It's a metaphor for how politicians step over (and screw over) anyone and everyone to ascend to power. See for yourself, and stop being a nimrod. And yes, I think Billy Squier is underrated. Disagree? Bite me.
I don't mind punks or anyone else doing protest music. I'm a big Living Colour fan, after all. I don't like the idea of people doing protest music about shit they know nothing about....you don't hear me making music about, I dunno, injustice in Nigeria. Why? Because other than the fact that the 419 Scam originated there, I know next to nothing about the place.
Stu continues:
From what I can gather, punk music (as well as some metal) is largely based on extreme social reform, down with this, down with that, blah, blah, blah I hate corporate America, on with Anarchy.
And what, pray tell, is wrong with hating Corporate America? I don't hate all of Corporate America, just the fact that a lot of companies have forgotten the things that made them great to begin with. They start small, grow by doing things mostly the right way, then once they get past a certain size, the top brass start to think they are bulletproof. Then they do stupid, cruel, greedy, and selfish things that they said they would never do when they were a little startup in someone's garage. There are companies that haven't forgotten their roots and I have no problems with them.
Anarchy in the real world is purely "might makes right." People who think anarchy would be benevolent and beneficial just perplex me. Yes, the law and "the Man" can be unfair a lot of times, but at least I know that if someone commits a crime against me, I have some chance of getting justice. Benevolent anarchy is a pipe dream. It would be wonderful if it actually worked. Let's face it though, except in tiny little communities (like the "paradise" in that good-premise-but-killed-by-DiCaprio-overacting film The Beach), anarchy won't work. People are inherently evil and someone would always try to gain an advantage over everyone else. Hey, I hope the anarchists can find a little island paradise of their own....but they should be prepared for disappointment.
Let me digress and try to get back on track here. Stu?
I am all for personal opinion. I am NOT all for loud, in your face, ignorant, misinformed opinion; which it has been my experience that most punks are, they're just sad/disillusioned/frustrated/ignorant young people who interestingly enough "grow out of it."
Just because they become wiser in the ways of the world doesn't mean they "grow out of it." They simply temper their old black-and-white notions with a cold dose of reality. Of course, there are some that don't but that has zero to do with them being punk fans, dude.
This is another problem I have. If it's just a phase what is the point?!?! Grow up!!! Realize there is more to music than 3 fucking chords! Listen to some classical music once in awhile!
This is good. Really good. Stu is right- limiting yourself to one kind of music is stifling. "Stability breeds stagnation," I always say. If you never try anything new, your life will be dull, you'll never learn anything, and who knows- you might like it. Steeleraven is trying to get me to listen to more punk, and I am getting her to listen to more metal....it's a good thing on all counts. Even though she would probably punch me in the mouth for saying it, Brody from The Distillers is really fucking cute. It goes against what metal purists would believe, but I'm not a purist anyway (except when it comes to beer). In a sick, twisted, diabolical way, she is totally fucking adorable. But I digress....
Stop bitching about things you know nothing about (nearly anything involving the president or U.S. global policy)!!!! Don't talk to me about dropping out of high school and not going to college like it's a badge of honor because its just sad and I have to endure your shit because your an ignorant uneducated fuck whos going nowhere
OK, now I'm gonna break out my "snooty expensive college education" spectacles....
What's this about uneducated? I will forgive the dangling preposition, because I have no room to talk about that (and this is a letter, not a damned term paper). The same goes for the run-on sentences, because I abuse those too (not to mention parintheses like this and ellipses). There is less excuse for the misuse of "its." You are using the contraction of "it is," man. Don't forget the apostrophe. In the same vein, it is "you're," (not "your"), and "who's" (not "whos").
Don't call someone out for being uneducated and make the same goddamned grammatical error three times in one paragraph, OK, Stu? You're (not "your") making metal geeks like myself look stupid. I admit it, I had to double-check the spelling of "spectacles." Nobody's perfect. Would it kill you people to fucking proofread shit? I'm not demanding perfection, but shit, 3 typos in one short paragraph is too many.
I do agree, however, about the fact that dropping out is not a badge of honor. Skipping out on college is wasting an opportunity to fight all of the injustices that these people talk about so much. Plus, college parties are a unique experience not to be missed. A lot of real punks, had they had the chance to get a good education, probably would've taken it. Same with a lot of the hardcore metalheads. Fuck, that one dude from Bad Religion has a PhD!
and the only way you can vent your pathetic self hate is through your shitty punk music..... SHUT THE FUCK UP PUNKS I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!
What was that about maturity again? Fuck, Stu, I'm a metal-brother, man, but shit, don't take the low road like that. Kills the argument. Like every genre, there's punk bands that suck and punk bands that don't suck. There are also bands who aren't punk but claim to be so, and bands that aren't punk who don't claim to be so, but their idiot fans do (I'm talking to you, Blink 182 fans).
P.S. Queen Bee I don’t care if you put this on your site, I seriously doubt you will, but try and give me a legit answer so maybe you can explain to me realistically why punks do what they do. Thanks
And we end with the apologetic sympathy tug....she put it on the site, Stu, because she's going to use your frothing little note as evidence that we metalheads are all morons. Thankfully, Stu, I'm here to try and do some damage control.
The Queen Bee respondeth thusly:
Dear Funny Guy,
How dull my column would be without pissed of gems like yourself! Sounds like someone lit a huge explosion under your pants! That's okay! That's what I'm here for!
See there? No "why are you an ass," at least not to start with.
First off; I find it very impressive that you happen to know who the vast majority of punks are, seeing that punk rock has spanned the world over since the 1970's and has influenced other genres of music, style and other forms of expression! It takes personal experience to form an opinion!
Sure as shit it does, and I love the sarcasm there. Fucking love it, even if it's being used against a fellow 'eadbanger.
Many young people are frustrated and confused by the mis-information they are fed by the media and have a right to defy it! I found myself very digsruntled by the system after being institutionalized for 9 months when my only crime was being a shy, B-average 10 year old student!
Absolutely. I used to love the media- I loved seeing corrupt politicians and businessmen who thought they were beyond reproach get the egg in their faces they rightfully deserved. Somewhere along the line, too many journalists became more concerned with Pulitzers than proactive-ness. I fucking miss Walter Cronkite, Charles Kuralt, and David Brinkley. I wish I could've gotten to see more of Edward R. Murrow's work when it was current news. Now Jayson Blair is exposed for a fraud and instead of being sent into obscurity like he deserves, he gets a fucking half-million dollar book deal?
So fuck yeah, fight media bias. Never trust a single source for all of your news.
The only thing that got me through school was a lethal dose of Jesus and Jello Biafra! I got suspended 3 times and almost expelled the same year I got on the B-honor roll in high school! I don't need a fucking badge of honor. I've got scars to prove what I lived through.
"Jesus and Jello Biafra?" I really can't touch that one....the two seem so contradictory, but if it worked, it worked I suppose. Me, I was too much of a nerd to get into too much trouble (an hulking, brooding, scowling, muscular nerd, but a nerd nonetheless). I was obsessed with getting into a good college. I slacked off senior year, sure- but I never really made any negative waves. This is one reason why I will never claim to be "more metal" than a lot of metalheads. I manage to avoid trouble.
I've listened to all styles of music and quickly became bored with the endless guitar wanking, epic 3-chord drudgery and silly falsetto vocals of metal.
Sorry, Queenie....I love yer column but I have to disagree. If you are going to take Stu to task over not knowing enough about metal, don't do the same thing and lump every metal band into the same category, OK? You're right about hair metal- there is a lot of guitar wanking (we metal fans like to call it a "guitar solo"). Epic three-chord drudgery? Have you ever listened to a Motorhead record? That is anything but drudgery. What about Metallica? Megadeth? Anthrax? Pantera? More than 3 chords, I assure you.
Then there are the silly falsetto vocals. Yes, hair metal likes the silly falsetto vocals. The examples I've already mentioned don't really have that vocal style (well, excepting Joey Belladonna, but it was half-parody when he did it anyway).
I'm not saying you have to like metal, but don't make fun of Stu's lack of punk knowledge when you have demonstrated you only know one style of metal. Yes, it takes a certain amount of shamelessness to like cock-rock. But fuck, there's more to metal than that.
And _no one_ has truly listened to "all styles of music." Granted, you seem to be saying that you have listened to a wide variety of music (which I don't doubt). There was even a guy who came to my college to speak once that recorded music from remote parts of the world. He has a huge library of music that might have been forgotten had he not recorded it. We're talking about him recording a tribe's ceremonial music one night, going back to camp, and returning the next day to find the entire tribe wiped out. If he hadn't gotten it on tape, it would've been lost to the ages. You've given a lot of styles of music a listen- as I mentioned before, this is admirable. It is also the one point where you agree with Stu. Don't lay claim to something that is well nigh impossible, though.
Queen Bee goes on....
Have you ever heard the classical pianist that plays nothing but Dead Kennedy covers? Where were you when all the other mullets crossed over to punk, anyway?
I have not heard of that pianist (it sounds interesting though, so I'll have to look into it). Have you heard of the four cellists who do nothing but Metallica covers?
In my case, I never had a mullet to begin with. In Stu's case- well, fuck if I know, maybe he never had one either. As far as where we went, I can't speak for him, but I know where I went. In addition to exploring more of the earlier metal bands to go along with the solo Ozzy and Pantera, I got into grunge to a degree too. Granted, most of the alt-rock/grunge bands I liked had metal-like or metal-inspired riffage (I love the crunchy guitars), but I expanded my horizons and tried something new. I liked some of it- a lot. Gruntruck is one of my favorite bands from that era, and sadly I never got to see them live. However, I was equally into the progenitors of metal, like Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Deep Purple. Having a metal guitarist cousin didn't hurt.
When I was younger, I was more ignorant, and I thought punk was like metal without the musicianship....I have grown up a little and realize there is more to it than that.
Besides that, I don't believe in being a purist of any sort! That's the kind of close-minded thinking that turns you into a hypocrite and gets you into trouble with yourself!
I think I've given enough evidence that I am not a purist. I just don't think it's totally fair to point out how narrow-minded Stu is when you've generalized his favorite genre as much as he did yours.
All politics are nonsense to me and anyone that believes everything they see on television deserves to be offended!
I'm sorry if you don't understand politics, and the comment about TV, while true, adds nothing to your case. Sorry....
Give the young-uns a fucking break! They're still trying to find their place in the world! If it wasn't for their energy and tenacity, this world would stand still and you old jaded farts would be fucked!
I used to think I was jaded....but I'm far too fucking pissed off to be jaded now. I try not to be too harsh with the kiddies for liking the stuff they like, but I can't stand it when they act like little know-it-all shits when it comes to whatever music they like. This applies to punk kids, metal kids, rap kids- any of them. It saddens me to see kids all but totally ignorant of the roots of their favorite genres. Punk kids who think Good Charlotte is as good as punk gets- fuck, I'm a metal guy and even I know about The Sex Pistols, Iggy Pop and the Stooges, The New York Dolls, and (god bless you Joey) The Ramones. Do I know everything? No. It wouldn't kill the kids to at least sample a few songs though. I have equally little respect for metal kids who think Cradle of Filth and Mudvayne are as heavy as it gets. Wrong answer- allow me to force-feed you some Iron Maiden or Slayer, little buddy. Then there are rap kids who think 50 Cent is fresh and new. Guess what, little suburban terrorist? NWA and Ice-T were doing that shit (and doing it better) 10 years ago. It won't kill you to listen to some De La Soul, LL Cool J, Run-DMC, Afrika Bambaata, or Grandmaster Melle Mel either. Know your history. I know mine, and as much as it frustrates me to hear fewer and fewer fresh bands hit the mainstream, it is nice to be able to tell that those guys in Godsmack were Rush and Alice in Chains fans.
People don't just "grow out of it", either. They just "grow older" and priorities change with responsibility. I can't help but feel at one time I may have fit your description to a T- as in "Tank Girl"!
I already agreed with you about this, so no point in rehashing it.
I am thankful to have experienced the reckless abandon of punk-fucking rock! You ought to get offa that hoppity horse of yours and try it sometime! The freedom of stage-diving 5 times and having your feet never touch the floor! The adrenaline that rushes you scream "motherfucker" over the mindless durge of maniacal noise!
It's cool that you're thankful for the punk. I am too. If it weren't for punk, Lemmy might've never left Hawkwind and formed Motorhead- and that's just one example (see? History.). One more that comes to mind are The Wildhearts. They are a bit punk, a bit metal, a bit pop-rock, and all a blast to hear.
Stage diving 5 times without touching the ground? You think that's unique to punk? Punk originated it, sure, but if you think that you can't get that elsewhere, you are wrong- even the nu-metal kiddies are doing that shit now. They stole it from you.
Screaming "motherfucker" over the mindless durge [sic] of maniacal noise....yes, we've done that too- ever hear Pantera play "Fucking Hostile" live? You wanna hear fucking noise? Listen to the guttural roar of a few thousand rabid metalheads shouting "HOSTILE!" as loud as they can. Even though he's not "purist" metal, you could even listen to thousands of Rob Zombie fans scream "Hey, YEAH!" along to "Superbeast." Go borrow a copy of Black Sabbath's Reunion set and listen to those fans rattle the roof in Birmingham during "Paranoid."
You should say "Thanks be to God" for the fact that monsters like me vent our frustrations through music, and not through bashing YOUR skull!
And once again, a chance to perhaps reach out to one metalhead and make some sort of contact is lost with this statement. This is what I don't fucking understand. I must need to do more reading, since I was a bit young for punk's heyday.
P.S. You no like punk?...Than no listen!
I am going to listen....at least until I have a good idea of what constitutes the real deal among the current bands and dig more into the pioneers beyond fucking Combat Rock, which most of my punk friends in college called "The Clash's Pop Album." You gave hair bands a chance, and didn't like 'em. Since I am going to try to learn more about punk, maybe you could give some other metal or hard rock a chance.
Now, can someone please explain to me why punks and metalheads hate each other so much? OK, so one is loud, chaotic, and raw, and the other is just as loud, somewhat controlled chaos. Big fucking deal. Here we are, fans of two of the last genres on earth that have any real passion for protest, unbridled emotion, or just outright debauchery, yet instead of turning to face our common enemies:
- commercialized, watered-down pop versions of the real deal(s), - repetitive, boring, unoriginal mainstream rap, - modern country music (which is basically twangier guitar pop), - big-name labels who keep talent down or hold them back in the name of profits (when letting the artists have total control would probably let them have more profits), - and homogenized radio stations that won't give new artists a chance until L.A. does,
we turn on each other over petty little things. Who cares which came first? Who cares which has more "musicianship?" Don't we all love the same things: loud-ass guitar, getting wasted, screaming in rage to the din, and having the best time of our fucking lives? Don't we both love tattoos and scaring the shit out of anyone who isn't with us? Don't we both love the idea of parents fearing that their children listen our favorite bands? Haven't we both already purchased one-way tickets straight to hell? I believe we have.
I have found evidence of punk vs. metal concerts already. Band battles as it were. I hope that one day headbangers and punks can rage together, whether it be to the likes of Prong or Rancid (fuck, see why I want to learn more about punk? I know a lot of punks can't stand Rancid). I want to see headbanger boys falling in love with punk rock girls. I want to see punk dudes making out with metal chicks. I want to see a guy lend someone his Megadeth CD for the weekend in exchange for borrowing an Operation Ivy CD. I want to see us standing together as one front, saying to the tools who turn our beloved tunes into tasteless, toothless mush to be forced down the throats of the masses "Enough! We are going to spread the word! We are going to show kids what rock and roll is all about, and you can't fucking stop us!"
I beseech you, brothers and sisters- if you love real music, music straight from the dark hearts and twisted minds of the people who play it- spread the word. Teach the kids that there's more to metal and punk than Puddle of Mudd and New Found Glory. Show them there is more to music than mainstream radio and (ugh) MTV. If they already know about getting away from the mainstream, encourage it. Let that punk kid listen to a track or two of Black Sabbath, and that metal kid listen to some of the Ramones. Who knows- if enough people realize they are being fed junk, maybe they will go cold turkey and the big record labels will take notice.
"Music can change the world."
--Ludwig van Beethoven
Rock on, Ludwig my man. Rock on.
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"I am sorry, but all questions must be submitted in writing."
